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	<title>Comments on: DC&#8217;s Eddie Berganza Talks to Women</title>
	<atom:link href="http://maidofmight.net/2007/02/dc-talks-to-women-eddie-berganza/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://maidofmight.net/2007/02/dc-talks-to-women-eddie-berganza/</link>
	<description>Everything about Supergirl</description>
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		<title>By: Supergirl interview coming in early July</title>
		<link>http://maidofmight.net/2007/02/dc-talks-to-women-eddie-berganza/comment-page-1/#comment-9880</link>
		<dc:creator>Supergirl interview coming in early July</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 25 Jun 2011 22:26:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://supergirl.astraldream.net/blog/?p=60#comment-9880</guid>
		<description>[...] is (very likely, given the characterization of Kara when she was first rebooted, and some of the inane things Berganza said way back in 2007 when Supergirl sales were faltering and DC was giving lip service to appealing to women. Something [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] is (very likely, given the characterization of Kara when she was first rebooted, and some of the inane things Berganza said way back in 2007 when Supergirl sales were faltering and DC was giving lip service to appealing to women. Something [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Michael</title>
		<link>http://maidofmight.net/2007/02/dc-talks-to-women-eddie-berganza/comment-page-1/#comment-913</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Feb 2007 17:00:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://supergirl.astraldream.net/blog/?p=60#comment-913</guid>
		<description>Ahhh.  I think I&#039;m starting to get it.  &quot;It&quot; being why the Supergirl book leaves me consistently cold -- which it does.  

If not DC&#039;s exact demographic, I probably come close:  a guy in his early 40s with a job and a family, both amused and grateful that comics -- basically, a happy childhood pastime -- have grown up enough to keep my interest all these years later.  I see guys like myself every time I shop at Midtown Comics in Manhattan, in far larger numbers than the adolescent fanboy set (or any women at all).

But think about what my demographic means.  To keep my interest, the comics that I read (and I read a lot of them) need to meet some basic criteria.  They need to preserve the childhood joys while simultaneously offering adult pleasures -- better plots, dialogue and characterization than the Silver Age was capable of.  Childlike and grownup at the same time -- it must be a challenge for writers, which is why so many of them fail at it.

Michelle&#039;s post, though, helps me understand the problem in more detail.  After all, an industry (or company) that deliberately targets adolescent boys is going to miss me as much as it misses her.  Sure, I share their Mittyesque fantasies of power; but it has been a long time since I shared their perverse objectification of women, as scary fetish objects or whatever else.  It just isn&#039;t enough to have show me a pretty girl in a tight outfit, and occasionally have her either in chains or bursting out of them.  I&#039;m looking for stories about credible people, with credible motives and relationships.  (&quot;Credible&quot; apart from, y&#039;know, the flying and heat vision....).

In other words, the same kind of writing that ticks off thoughtful women is going to tick off (or at least bore) thoughtful men, at least once we get out of our teens and start earning enough money to buy comics.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ahhh.  I think I&#8217;m starting to get it.  &#8220;It&#8221; being why the Supergirl book leaves me consistently cold &#8212; which it does.  </p>
<p>If not DC&#8217;s exact demographic, I probably come close:  a guy in his early 40s with a job and a family, both amused and grateful that comics &#8212; basically, a happy childhood pastime &#8212; have grown up enough to keep my interest all these years later.  I see guys like myself every time I shop at Midtown Comics in Manhattan, in far larger numbers than the adolescent fanboy set (or any women at all).</p>
<p>But think about what my demographic means.  To keep my interest, the comics that I read (and I read a lot of them) need to meet some basic criteria.  They need to preserve the childhood joys while simultaneously offering adult pleasures &#8212; better plots, dialogue and characterization than the Silver Age was capable of.  Childlike and grownup at the same time &#8212; it must be a challenge for writers, which is why so many of them fail at it.</p>
<p>Michelle&#8217;s post, though, helps me understand the problem in more detail.  After all, an industry (or company) that deliberately targets adolescent boys is going to miss me as much as it misses her.  Sure, I share their Mittyesque fantasies of power; but it has been a long time since I shared their perverse objectification of women, as scary fetish objects or whatever else.  It just isn&#8217;t enough to have show me a pretty girl in a tight outfit, and occasionally have her either in chains or bursting out of them.  I&#8217;m looking for stories about credible people, with credible motives and relationships.  (&#8220;Credible&#8221; apart from, y&#8217;know, the flying and heat vision&#8230;.).</p>
<p>In other words, the same kind of writing that ticks off thoughtful women is going to tick off (or at least bore) thoughtful men, at least once we get out of our teens and start earning enough money to buy comics.</p>
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		<title>By: Michelle</title>
		<link>http://maidofmight.net/2007/02/dc-talks-to-women-eddie-berganza/comment-page-1/#comment-874</link>
		<dc:creator>Michelle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Feb 2007 13:55:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://supergirl.astraldream.net/blog/?p=60#comment-874</guid>
		<description>Thanks for the link! I will warn you though, I&#039;m a rather sporadic blogger =)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the link! I will warn you though, I&#8217;m a rather sporadic blogger =)</p>
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		<title>By: Shelly</title>
		<link>http://maidofmight.net/2007/02/dc-talks-to-women-eddie-berganza/comment-page-1/#comment-870</link>
		<dc:creator>Shelly</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Feb 2007 05:36:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://supergirl.astraldream.net/blog/?p=60#comment-870</guid>
		<description>Hey, thanks for the link. Cool blog, definitely one I need to read and link to. :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey, thanks for the link. Cool blog, definitely one I need to read and link to. :)</p>
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		<title>By: Michelle</title>
		<link>http://maidofmight.net/2007/02/dc-talks-to-women-eddie-berganza/comment-page-1/#comment-778</link>
		<dc:creator>Michelle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Feb 2007 20:33:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://supergirl.astraldream.net/blog/?p=60#comment-778</guid>
		<description>Joel: Thank you for the kind words. I wasn&#039;t sure how people would react to some of the things I said. I tried not to rehash what everyone else has said on the subject, which isn&#039;t easy because we all seem to be thinking on the same wavelength! It&#039;s great that they&#039;re &lt;em&gt;trying&lt;/em&gt; to address the concerns that everyone&#039;s been having. I&#039;d resigned myself to the fact that no one cared, and that this Supergirl would never be for me. I&#039;d love for that to change.

Mark: Thanks for dropping by. You&#039;ve been busy! I&#039;ve seen your name just about everywhere, and I&#039;ve got to admire your courage in braving all these blogs and boards where emotions are running pretty high. It&#039;s both reassuring to know that our concerns are reaching someone, and disconcerting to know that creators are listening in on our conversations ;-) Oh, and I&#039;ve bought comics specifically because I enjoyed the creator&#039;s online participation (White Tiger, most recently), so hanging out with us does pay off =)

Ami: that was my impression too. Thank you for coming by just to hear &lt;em&gt;me&lt;/em&gt; *smiles* I&#039;m really flattered, and more encouraged than ever to keep posting my own peculiar impressions on things. I would have posted sooner, but I only stumbled upon it by accident the day before. And that&#039;s when my head exploded...!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Joel: Thank you for the kind words. I wasn&#8217;t sure how people would react to some of the things I said. I tried not to rehash what everyone else has said on the subject, which isn&#8217;t easy because we all seem to be thinking on the same wavelength! It&#8217;s great that they&#8217;re <em>trying</em> to address the concerns that everyone&#8217;s been having. I&#8217;d resigned myself to the fact that no one cared, and that this Supergirl would never be for me. I&#8217;d love for that to change.</p>
<p>Mark: Thanks for dropping by. You&#8217;ve been busy! I&#8217;ve seen your name just about everywhere, and I&#8217;ve got to admire your courage in braving all these blogs and boards where emotions are running pretty high. It&#8217;s both reassuring to know that our concerns are reaching someone, and disconcerting to know that creators are listening in on our conversations ;-) Oh, and I&#8217;ve bought comics specifically because I enjoyed the creator&#8217;s online participation (White Tiger, most recently), so hanging out with us does pay off =)</p>
<p>Ami: that was my impression too. Thank you for coming by just to hear <em>me</em> *smiles* I&#8217;m really flattered, and more encouraged than ever to keep posting my own peculiar impressions on things. I would have posted sooner, but I only stumbled upon it by accident the day before. And that&#8217;s when my head exploded&#8230;!</p>
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		<title>By: Ami Angelwings</title>
		<link>http://maidofmight.net/2007/02/dc-talks-to-women-eddie-berganza/comment-page-1/#comment-770</link>
		<dc:creator>Ami Angelwings</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Feb 2007 10:40:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://supergirl.astraldream.net/blog/?p=60#comment-770</guid>
		<description>Yus, I agree, the opening wasn&#039;t very funny at all and I think the whole thing came off as a sorta nod to male fans like &#039;dun worry I&#039;m still with you, but you know those silly girls complain a lot&#039;. :\

Still, I guess we&#039;ll see.  I DO like the new artist tho IF he keeps drawing her like he drew her for the Holiday Special :)  However, the writing has to match up. :&#124;

Great post tho!  I kept checking to see if you had written nething about this cuz I like your opinions and writing :D</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yus, I agree, the opening wasn&#8217;t very funny at all and I think the whole thing came off as a sorta nod to male fans like &#8216;dun worry I&#8217;m still with you, but you know those silly girls complain a lot&#8217;. :\</p>
<p>Still, I guess we&#8217;ll see.  I DO like the new artist tho IF he keeps drawing her like he drew her for the Holiday Special :)  However, the writing has to match up. :|</p>
<p>Great post tho!  I kept checking to see if you had written nething about this cuz I like your opinions and writing :D</p>
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		<title>By: Mark Sable</title>
		<link>http://maidofmight.net/2007/02/dc-talks-to-women-eddie-berganza/comment-page-1/#comment-764</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark Sable</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Feb 2007 04:03:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://supergirl.astraldream.net/blog/?p=60#comment-764</guid>
		<description>Hey everyone...I&#039;m Mark Sable, the aforementioned writer who&#039;s been doing &quot;damage control&quot; (I&#039;m not sure that&#039;s what I was doing...but I&#039;m glad if I am doing it I&#039;m doing it &quot;excellently&quot;:)).  Seriously, I don&#039;t mind the extra scrutiny, bearing in the following:  one, as of righ now, contrary to the announcement in the comic, I&#039;m only definitely co-writing issue 16 (which I wrote prior to all the hubub).  Now that Joe&#039;s schedule is freed up more, he&#039;s writing 17 solo...we&#039;ll see what happens with issues 18-19. 

That said, I do hope, regardless of your gender, you&#039;ll check out issue 16 though.  I think it&#039;s a good story, and as Michelle pointed out, what I&#039;ve seen of Ale Garza&#039;s was encouraging both from a standpoint of quality and in terms of portraying Supergirl in a non-sexist way.

I&#039;ve said this elsewhere, but at the very least the process of engaging in fans over the DC Nation column has been an extremely positive one for me, because I&#039;ve been opened up to an entire world of message boards, blogs etc. (like this one) that I might not have been otherwise.    As a writer, I&#039;m glad to have that perspective, and also hopeful that when my next Image comic (HAZED, a dark comedy abour sororities and eating disorders, think Heathers or Mean Girls set in college) comes out, I&#039;ll have an audience receptive to a book that I am very much hoping will appeal to women.  (sorry for the self promotion...but it&#039;s hard to get interest in a book that doesn&#039;t have Marvel or DC on the cover).

Anyway, although I feel for Eddie because his heart is in the right place, I think the discussion here and elsewhere is an important one to have.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey everyone&#8230;I&#8217;m Mark Sable, the aforementioned writer who&#8217;s been doing &#8220;damage control&#8221; (I&#8217;m not sure that&#8217;s what I was doing&#8230;but I&#8217;m glad if I am doing it I&#8217;m doing it &#8220;excellently&#8221;:)).  Seriously, I don&#8217;t mind the extra scrutiny, bearing in the following:  one, as of righ now, contrary to the announcement in the comic, I&#8217;m only definitely co-writing issue 16 (which I wrote prior to all the hubub).  Now that Joe&#8217;s schedule is freed up more, he&#8217;s writing 17 solo&#8230;we&#8217;ll see what happens with issues 18-19. </p>
<p>That said, I do hope, regardless of your gender, you&#8217;ll check out issue 16 though.  I think it&#8217;s a good story, and as Michelle pointed out, what I&#8217;ve seen of Ale Garza&#8217;s was encouraging both from a standpoint of quality and in terms of portraying Supergirl in a non-sexist way.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve said this elsewhere, but at the very least the process of engaging in fans over the DC Nation column has been an extremely positive one for me, because I&#8217;ve been opened up to an entire world of message boards, blogs etc. (like this one) that I might not have been otherwise.    As a writer, I&#8217;m glad to have that perspective, and also hopeful that when my next Image comic (HAZED, a dark comedy abour sororities and eating disorders, think Heathers or Mean Girls set in college) comes out, I&#8217;ll have an audience receptive to a book that I am very much hoping will appeal to women.  (sorry for the self promotion&#8230;but it&#8217;s hard to get interest in a book that doesn&#8217;t have Marvel or DC on the cover).</p>
<p>Anyway, although I feel for Eddie because his heart is in the right place, I think the discussion here and elsewhere is an important one to have.</p>
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		<title>By: Joel</title>
		<link>http://maidofmight.net/2007/02/dc-talks-to-women-eddie-berganza/comment-page-1/#comment-748</link>
		<dc:creator>Joel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 03 Feb 2007 08:00:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://supergirl.astraldream.net/blog/?p=60#comment-748</guid>
		<description>Snipped paragraphs aside, I thought this was a VERY interesting post, and possibly the best on the subject.  You pretty much nailed it from every side!  What&#039;s heartening is, the creative team are on the case.  I&#039;ve seen Mark Sable popping up doing an excellent job of damage control, and Ale Garza seems to be listening to the voices, too.  I wonder if they&#039;ll see a sales spike as a result... should be interesting.

If I were Sable I&#039;d be doing the same thing... but also alternately cursing and blessing Eddie Berganza.  They&#039;ve got their publicity out of Berganza&#039;s amazingly clueless letter but most of it&#039;s been negative.  So Sable will be under extra scrutiny even while people anticipate what he&#039;ll do.  Living far away from a comic store guarantees I won&#039;t be reading his first issue, but I&#039;m looking forward to the results.

I think Michelle&#039;s comments ably sum up a lot of that, too.  And yeah, a couple of those Garza sketches are great.  A big improvement over both Churchill and Turner&#039;s versions.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Snipped paragraphs aside, I thought this was a VERY interesting post, and possibly the best on the subject.  You pretty much nailed it from every side!  What&#8217;s heartening is, the creative team are on the case.  I&#8217;ve seen Mark Sable popping up doing an excellent job of damage control, and Ale Garza seems to be listening to the voices, too.  I wonder if they&#8217;ll see a sales spike as a result&#8230; should be interesting.</p>
<p>If I were Sable I&#8217;d be doing the same thing&#8230; but also alternately cursing and blessing Eddie Berganza.  They&#8217;ve got their publicity out of Berganza&#8217;s amazingly clueless letter but most of it&#8217;s been negative.  So Sable will be under extra scrutiny even while people anticipate what he&#8217;ll do.  Living far away from a comic store guarantees I won&#8217;t be reading his first issue, but I&#8217;m looking forward to the results.</p>
<p>I think Michelle&#8217;s comments ably sum up a lot of that, too.  And yeah, a couple of those Garza sketches are great.  A big improvement over both Churchill and Turner&#8217;s versions.</p>
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