June 5, 2010: DC Nation panel at Heroes Con 2010
A serious topic came up about how characters who are minorities who happened to be legacy characters like Ryan Choi are killed off so their caucasian counterparts can return and how they feel like they are being cheated or sidelined out of their roles. Sattler took a more serious tone. “It’s so hard for me to be on the other side because it’s not our intention. There is a reason behind it all. We don’t see it that way and strive very hard to have a diverse DCU. I mean, we have green, pink, and blue characters. We have the Great Ten out there and I have counter statistics, but I won’t get into that. It’s not how we perceived it. We get the same thing about how we treat our female characters.”
– Ian Settler, DC Senior Story Editor
Not kidding. He really mocked real people of colour by talking not about them but about non-existent green, pink, and blue people!!!!
And then cited the horrifically offensive Chinese superhero team “The Great Ten” to add insult to injury. Oh, and some hypothetical “counter statistics” that he “won’t get into”.
There is so much wrong going on here. You must read Brown Betty’s breakdown in DC Comics: eliminating non-buyer’s remorse:
But I am also boggling at using The Great Ten in their defence. Technically, it could be worse. He could have pointed out Egg Fu, but The Great Ten is not so great either. Here are some quotes by Morrison and Bedard, on one of the Great Ten, Mother of Champions: These quotes from this Newsarama article, emphasis mine:
“Mother of Champions is a rather hair-raising concept,” Bedard explained. “She can give birth to, as Grant Morrison put it, ‘a 25-strong litter of genetically-identical supermen, each with a lifespan of one week.”
The racism inherent in a Chinese character whose power is her terrifying fertility should be apparent, but litter makes me so mad I can’t even. Sows have litters. Dogs have litters. Women have BABIES, you unbelievable piece of shit.
– Brown Betty
And also Odditycollector’s post What the shit is this on my computer screen? which has some awesome comments over on livejournal and dreamwidth.
Incidentally, I like how the spokesman used his dismissive Invoking Strangely Colored People tactic as a segue to wave off any of the icky shrill feminists in the audience/readerbase as well. “So this one thing you guys complain about? Nope. Just no. Also this other thing, that’s a no too. You’re wrong.”
– Vejiicakes
Yeah… I’m still not sure how to read that. Is it “And as analogy, our comics are full of gender! Just for instance, look at all the men! Thus the feminists who complain about lack of gender inclusion are *dumb*!”
Or is it “You know who else whines about stuff? FEMINISTS. You people complaining about the CoC situation don’t want to be like FEMINISTS, do you?”
– Odditycollector
Related posts:
And don’t forget the Willingham thing, detailed about halfway down nevermore999′s post here.
Then Willingham had to ruin everything and say, and I swear to God this is a direct quote “I wanted to gun down those girls who kept asking about the memorial case.”
AAAAARGH.
gun down those girls
That’s a very…specific description of his reaction. Does he think about murdering women – I mean, girls – a lot? *backs away slowly from the crazy man*
Not to make light of some peoples concerns but don’t you think you might be blowing things out of proportion. I’m not happy that Ryan Choi was killed but to assume it’s some giant conspiracy on DC’s fault seems to be reactionary doesn’t it?
Not to make light of some peoples concerns but don’t you think you might be blowing things out of proportion.
Did you just start reading superhero comics? Try reading the race sections on When Fangirls Attack for a month, then tell me that we’re “overreacting”. Seriously, you need to pay more attention to superhero comics discussion before saying that.
Reactionary does not mean what you think it means. It refers to a viewpoint that seeks to return to a previous state in a society. DC are being the reactionary ones here, in their current retro push to bring back what they consider the “real versions” of their favourite heroes – who not accidentally happen to be all the white dudes. ‘Cause guess what? DC is and has always been a company run by white dudes who write stories about white dudes, and the current PTB have a big ol’ nos-con for their childhood when all the “big” characters were white dudes.
to assume it’s some giant conspiracy
Why do you think that racism has to be some big conspiracy? That’s not only ridiculous, it’s a really common tactic to dismiss criticism of racism. That won’t fly here. See aversive racism.
uhm. I’m black. First of all, calling anyone a racist because your view of how things should be is wrong and it’s a bit of a crutch. It’s like when someone on a message board calls Gail Simone sexist. it doesn’t really make sense frankly. It’s not DC or Marvels fault that a minority character doesn’t sell well. Do you know what other characters don’t sell well? Characters without a tangible connection to one of the bigger selling characters. Is it a conspiracy to keep new characters from succeeding.? DC is entirely motivated by money, Sorry but those versions you’re railing against are the ones people know and are frankly the more popular versions. To assume that there’s some motive other than pure capitalism is misguided. Readers vote with their dollars and this is what the Superhero market wants.
Oh lord. There’s so much fail packed into this one paragraph, it’s like you’re trying to cram in every baloney argument used by denialists.
DC is entirely motivated by money
And you know this because you’ve met every person there and they’re all robots? Or is it because you think that business decisions are made in a total cultural vacuum by people who are magically unaffected by the unexamined assumptions they carry around? Right. DC is staffed by amoral robots. Thanks for informing us of that: I was under the impression that they were human and motivated by multiple, conflicting beliefs and impulses just like the rest of us. *rolls eyes*
To assume that there’s some motive other than pure capitalism is misguided.
Newsflash: capitalism is not an excuse for bad behavior. You’re saying that it’s okay to do anything no matter the consequences, if greed is involved. Do you see what’s wrong with that?
Readers vote with their dollars and this is what the Superhero market wants.
You really believe that’s how things work, don’t you?
DC is run by human beings who make decisions that are against their own best financial interest all the time. Clearly this is not what “the superhero market” wants, because DC is bleeding readers because of their willful indifference to reader criticism.
It’s certainly not readers who are asking for more racism, gore, rape, and death in their books.
[i]And you know this because you’ve met every person there and they’re all robots? Or is it because you think that business decisions are made in a total cultural vacuum by people who are magically unaffected by the unexamined assumptions they carry around? Right. DC is staffed by amoral robots. Thanks for informing us of that: I was under the impression that they were human and motivated by multiple, conflicting beliefs and impulses just like the rest of us. *rolls eyes* [/i]
No, I know this because Warner Bros. is, and by extension DC is a publicly traded company that requires a certain amount of revenue and dividends paid to it’s shareholders at the end of every fiscal year. They don’t care how you feel, they don’t really care what you as a person in particular think. they care that units are sold, that product moves and that they tell the best possible stories under very tight deadlines.
[i}Newsflash: capitalism is not an excuse for bad behavior. You’re saying that it’s okay to do anything no matter the consequences, if greed is involved. Do you see what’s wrong with that?[/i}
Reality check: Assuming that every decision made in a capitalistic society is bad behavior is a weak argument. You're assuming that it's greed. it's not, It's creative commerce. It's men and women serving one master to entertain you the best way they know how.
No one requires you or forces you to buy DC's products. if it's not your cup of tea there are about 200 other small press comapnies in which you can spend your comic dollar.
[i]DC is run by human beings who make decisions that are against their own best financial interest all the time. [/i]
Honestly, that really isn’t your call to make.
[i]Clearly this is not what “the superhero market†wants, because DC is bleeding readers because of their willful indifference to reader criticism.[/i]
Yet their sales have never been higher, particularly in the trade paperback market. DC’s over year to year sales have increased every quarter for the last six years.
[i]It’s certainly not readers who are asking for more racism, gore, rape, and death in their books.[/i] Again the sales figures say differently.
seems to be reactionary doesn’t it?
LoLoL. Those complaining about the DCU rejecting the threat of the (barely) multicultural present and returning to the safer status quo of 40 years ago are being “reactionary”? I can’t *even*.
Look, for the record, I am sure TPTB did not sit down in a darkened room and, while wearing KKK robes and exchanging Hitler salutes, plot out the wonderfulness of white power bringing back all the wonderful old white heroes just like in their nostalgia, and finally an excuse to sweep out all of these extraneous brown characters to make *room*! No one is saying that. They are saying DC is tonedeaf, or unthinking, or that their idea generator is sticking too many middle ages white dudes in a room.
But the result is the same, and this policy of willful unawareness is mindboggling. They are not Wile E. Coyote running off the edge of a cliff, safe to continue doing as they please so long as they can claim obliviousness. Pretending they cannot hear people pointing out the fail does not mean the fail didn’t happen.
Besides, I’m forever bewildered at the idea that just because someone isn’t consciously scheming ways to further the superiority of the white race, their actions are innocent regardless of whatever resulting harm they inflict.
You run over a pedestrian with your car, you’re not free to drive away because you didn’t see them, because you didn’t *intend* it.
Here’s the thing: DC, I love your characters, I truly do. They are so full of life and vip and vigor, but when it comes down to it: most of the young girls that I grew up relating to are blonde, blue-eyed, and Caucasian. Now, I am Caucasian too, and I love each of those blonde girls, but I just wince a bit at each “new” design I see involving a teenaged blonde girl. To make matters worse, DC has just started slaughtering the few colored people they have left. I like Steph, but I think Cassandra should play a more active role in honing the girl’s martial arts skills. I mean, the two are best-buds for life! And then there’s the whole Geoff Johns thing with the “white power” rings. >> And of course, Ryan Choi. I never read that series, but from the cover I saw… well, that just really made me grit my teeth. I don’t think it is intentional, but regardless, that doesn’t make it okay. What an arrogant thing to say… “pink and blue and green people” yeah, and Rainbow Brite was totally the face of the Civil Rights Movement. >>
I hear you on the all ‘new’ teenaged blonde girls. I’m so torn on Steph for that reason. And we shouldn’t have to be. We should be able to choose from a wide variety of teenaged girl characters to read about, and not have to choose between Cass and Steph, because of the artificially small selection of books headlined by a female character.
Someone asked the good question of why Cass had to give up being Batgirl at all – there are multiple Robins running around right now under different guises, and Dick Grayson won’t be giving up the costumed life when Bruce returns (I’d rather Bruce not return at all, but that’s another thing!) Cass didn’t need to be written out: she coulda been ‘upgraded’ to something ala Red Robin.